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When will current political trend of Extremes and polarization end.

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by cyrusthegreat333, Apr 30, 2021.

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  1. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    Neo is 100% correct.

    There is a video from a news channel out of Pennsylvania, Pittsburg I think, where this head doctor of a
    hospital was disclosing that he was being forced to list EVERY patient who died with a Covid positive test,
    no matter the actual cause of death (one actually was an auto accident caused death) had to be listed as a Covid caused death.

    (I'll try to find the video-it was posted over a year ago).

    His claim was that this was being done for political reasons and for monetary reasons for the hospital.

    Doctors in hospitals, or in groups, are controlled by a board of directors.
    They only have one thing in mind- MONEY.

    The doctors don't have a whole lot of say in a lot of things. Take my neurologist/pain specialist doctor I see regularly.
    He is allowed to Rx me no more than 1 pain pill a day at max, until my surgery which is yet 6-8 weeks away.
    He said he would be glad to Rx me 45 instead of 30 because he knows somedays are excruciating for me but
    because of the Group's guidelines, he is restricted to 30 per month NO MATTER WHAT.

    He originally was restricted to 20 a month, (as he Rx'd me originally), but in severe cases he can goto 30 max.
    The board doesn't want any chance of a lawsuit he said, and one can only get mentally addicted at one pill a day but
    can not get physically addicted at one a day.

    You'd be surprised how money controls your health care, mainly by the insurance companies, board of directors,
    and never actually by your health care provider (your doctor).
     
  2. orly6666

    orly6666 Trusted.Member

    Well when money is concerned, i guess a person shouldn't be surprised at anything a person or organization will do to make it....
    Here in Alberta Canada, if anything the government would try to understate the number Covid deaths and cases.
     
  3. MilaHot

    MilaHot Account Deleted

    Just here in Canada, there's also a systemic racism against the French Canadians. Just look at the Leaders' Debate, in English. None of the leaders defended the Quebec when the mediator, who was supposed to be neutral, just said "the Quebec is racist". I think its another thing about "extremes" and all here in Canada.
    The Canadian medias like to depict the Quebec as racists... The only journalists that send articles about the Quebec outside of the country are active Anti-Quebecers.. and nothing is done against it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2021
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  4. FullyBaked420

    FullyBaked420 Trusted Member

    That graph is a bit misleading. While it may not look like much, a 1 percent increase in deaths is a MASSIVE change. For context, the death rate as a percentage only moved .4 percent from 1954-1975. I picked those years because it coincided with the years of the Vietnam War. I was going to try WW2 but the data doesn't go back far enough. I found the same graph you did, that actually was contained the UN predictions of death percentage change in America and you completely cut off the part where it kept going up. But that is science and guesswork. So I get it.

    From 2018 to 2020 alone, there was a .4 percent change. According to google, the US population is 328 million. .4 percent of 328 million is 1,312,000. That's one million three hundred more Americans that died in 2020 than 2018. So yes, percentage-wise it may be an infinitesimal change. It is a massive effect on human lives.
     
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  5. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    I left out the UN predictions because those predictions are very unreliable. What I wish to point out is that the percentage change in 2014 was about 1.3% and dropped to about 1.1% in 2020, if Covid had any significant impact in deaths then 2020 should have seen an increase in the rate. Instead we see a continual decrease in the rate, which continues to decrease into 2021. Since this is percentages the actual population number doesn't have that much of an effect, if any then the percentages should go up with population increase.
     
  6. FullyBaked420

    FullyBaked420 Trusted Member

    That's not how percentages work though. Also, I don't know if we're looking at the same graph, because on the one you posted the death per 1000 people has been on a steady increase since 2014.

    I believe what you're referring to is how much the percentage went up per year. Which again, is misleading. So in 2018 it might have gone up 1 percent for example. But in 2019 the death rate only went up .8 percent (not actual numbers, just examples.) So lets say the annual death rate in 2017 was 30. Then in 2018 it would be 31. And in 2019 it would be 31.8 percent. The death rate still increased, just not as big of a jump in 2018. What that means is 2019 had more deaths per thousand people than not only 2017 but 2018 as well. It's not unrealistic with modern medicine, the country's average age decreasing EDIT: (I'm going to leave this here because I didn't look before I posted so I deserve to look like an ass lol. Yeah, it's wrong. The average age is not decreasing, it's remained largely unchanged in the two year span.) and advancements in health that the number in that second graph should be below 0 on almost a yearly basis. Otherwise it means more people are dying and you're getting worse at staying alive, as a society. As the percentage of deaths per 1000 gets hire the change rate becomes more difficult to increase because now it takes more deaths for that percentage to increase, because the number was higher the year before. All that tells you is how we're doing on a year to year basis, it has no bearing on anything else. The fact that that percentage has remained the same doesn't mean that we've gotten better at not dying, it means we got a whole lot worse at dying.

    Again, though, the actual numbers are 1.3 million extra deaths in 2020 than in 2018. This is the number that actually matters. The population increase fast enough to warrant that many extra deaths. That is 1.3 million more people that died than normal. If it wasn't COVID that caused these spikes in death then I'd like to hear another theory? We did 20 years of change in percentage of deaths per thousand in a 2 year span. The numbers don't lie they're just more complicated than necessary. The graphs are difficult to discern exact information out of a lot of times. Especially when the numbers don't start at 0.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  7. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    They base their chart percentage by per capita, which goes far to negate changes in population, either up or down. Increase in population causes increase in interactions and possible increases in deaths, as the population goes up linearly the interactions goes up exponentially.
     
  8. FullyBaked420

    FullyBaked420 Trusted Member

    I see what you meant by the first part then. But that still doesn't change the fact that the second graph is irrelevant to whether COVID was a problem due to it only measuring year to year increase over the previous year and not the actual amount of deaths per capita which is what the first graph shows. Which is on the rise.
     
  9. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    Both graphs are per capita.
     
  10. FullyBaked420

    FullyBaked420 Trusted Member


    Yes, both are per capita. But the bottom one only shows how much the number increased not the actual amount of people dying. The fact the second graph is green at all still shows an increase in deaths per capita. Your information is correct, it's just not relevant to the discussion because it not a proper tool to measure the number of deaths per capita per year. It is only used to show how quickly the rate has changed from year to year. That is the only amount of information that is able to be obtained from that graph.

    The first graph, the one that's going up very fast, is the one that is relevant to the discussion because it's literally all the information you were talking about. The deaths per capita has been increasing, and it continued it's increase into 2019 and 2020. And if it's population density that's the cause there, then since everybody was socially distanced and the entire country was shut down in 2019 so the common causes of increase in death rate associated with increase in population would have been irrelevant because everyone was separated. If anything, say Corona was not a big deal and we did that lockdown, that second graph should've immediately dipped into the red. Instead, people kept dying at an even higher rate than they did in 2018.

    I'm really not trying to be argumentative on start fights or anything. This is just how misinformation is spread and how we got to the point where a large portion of the country is refusing to take vaccinations now, correct numbers are taken and used in improper context to twist the reality of the situation. It sucks, but the reality is that the frequency of people dying in America has increased in 2019 and 2020 by 1.3 million, roughly. Coronavirus is (I guess, supposedly?) responsible for 674,000 deaths in America. That's a pretty strong indicator that it was at the very least, partially responsible for the increase in deaths.
     
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  11. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

  12. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

  13. Conservative_dad

    Conservative_dad Trusted.Member

    Big money in lobbying and pharmaceuticals being made off this covid19 B.S. Expect more and more variants to be discovered to keep the narrative going and sheep under control with the media using fear.
    Covid19 was over when the borders were open in the U.S. By releasing unvaccinated migrants in to the general population then telling american citizens to be vaccinated is the highest form of government HYPOCRISY. American people no longer falling for it.
     
  14. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Let me point one case I became aware of out, which kind of proves one of the current "Left" issue points.

    I believe it was WI, heard about it yesterday, where March 2020 a doctor told a girl that she likely had covid after spring break. She posted that on Instagram. A teacher took it upon herself to get the admins to get the police to demand the student take that down to "avoid panic". The Sheriff who showed up, verified by dashcam footage and audio in the later FEDERAL LAWSUIT? Threatened if she did not IMMEDIATELY take it down "People were going to be taken to jail". That is a direct quote from the audio. The report CLEARLY STATES he never threatened them and "Politely Asked only". Their lawyers, right up to discovery day were saying publicly "He never made a threat about arrest or jail". Then on discovery day? Admitted to the court they did just that.

    The issue that the Left is correct about? It is past time we stop treating every officer, every second, of every day as "pure heroes".

    This is from a Former Prosecutor. The police? While they do prevent SOME crime? Don't really prevent the level some pretend they do. They investigate after the fact. Take a report. MAYBE solve it someday. I know 4 or 5 cops who spent careers doing nothing but sitting in the same spot every day with a speed gun. 20 years. The worst crime one stopped, his own words, was "40 over on an empty highway straight away at 4 in the morning". Their presence does "Deter", potentially, if they are seen in the area. But in the end the below is also true.

    With the advent of cameras with audio? We are seeing more and more cases where interactions on video turn out to largely contradict the "official written report". Maybe it is time for every cop to wear a body cam. And every night? A civilian who does not answer to PD? Transcribes the "report". In a locked read only file they police cant then "correct" based on wanting to look better or potentially hide things.

    The worst violation. And one I know happens at times? Is the DA protection they get. The world finally saw something that was brushed off as "conspiracy" before in the Taylor charges to the Grand Jury. DA swore up and down and all around that he charged homicide and that was "not found". Expecting, as usual, the GJ to stay sealed. Turns out two jurors were not OK with his lies and petitioned the court to unseal simply what was CHARGED. Not names of members, witnesses, etc. Just what charges were presented. DA fought like hell to stop that. We found out why. The HOMICIDE was never charged or presented. Only reckless endangerment for the bullets that went into the next apartment (luckily no one was hit there). Never even brought up or spoke on any other charges. So a DA has now been publicly CAUGHT not even charging Cops with real serious charges then "Swear I did and they didnt vote to indict". That is why I avoided police GJs like a PLAGUE. Too much pressure to balance "The evidence" and "the good will of NYPD".

    In closing, I thank the jury for their time and civil service, :). If cops want to be seen as "good"? Maybe it is time for the GOOD Cops to be able to weed out the bad ones? And if the Brass is protecting them (like, I dont know, Spotta the former Suffolk DA and his cop buddies who now want their pleas sealed from the public) they should be fired and charged too. There is a gap where more and more people in the center are saying "really? This happened again?!".
     
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  15. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted


    I agree with everything you state. But I am not sure of what you are stating your stance is.

    Are you saying that these unethical procedures and processes are because the law enforcement higher-ups
    are such because they are Democrat or because they are Republicans?

    Shouldn't matter, as the "Defund" crowd -liberals- are idiots and the "Back the Blue" are failing to see the
    injustice that occurs daily in the police forces/ judicial system.
    Both are wrong and both refuse that the system needs modification, not less or replacement manpower,
    and definitely a change in the "Good 'Ol Boys Club" mentality that permeates law enforcement and the
    court system.
     
  16. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    Out of thousands of encounters with the police you might get a handful where the police abuse their powers. The Right is willing to look at the thousand of good encounters and tolerate the handful. The Left is willing to condemn the thousands just for a handful of bad encounters. Their positions are not the same.
     
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  17. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    That is true.
    I was specifying more towards the corruption of law enforcement at all levels, specifically in the Prosecutor's Office. (the DA district atty).

    There are many instances where the DA has withheld exculpatory evidence with 100% knowledge they are
    convicting the wrong person just to justify their conviction record.

    Many do so because they have a judge's bench seat in their sights and they will do/say anything to get there.
    In some cases, it has been with the help of the Coroner's office.

    On the Peace Officer level, it's having one's back even when their actions were illegal, not just questionable.
    The corruption in the union shows this every time a bad officer, with many disciplinary actions, are finally
    relieved of duty, only to get re-instated on a minor union technicality.

    They, then go on to do even more atrocious actions, all the while getting away with abuse of the position of power.

    I know the bad officer numbers are miniscule to the great officers on duty, and they all get stroked with a wide brush.

    But these DA and coroners who get caught are given slaps on the wrist for even being responsible for wrongly putting men on Death Row while the Peace Officer who slaps a belligerent drunk gets fired and charged to the extreme.

    Who does those charges? The DA of course! He/she is willing to sacrifice their own when it comes to their goals
    of advancement.
     
  18. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    I am saying, based on PURE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, the protection comes from "Conservative Minded" people who worship the police. The people who say "COMPLY TOTALLY NOW! File a complaint at some later point!". Who say "So you were detained for 3 hours? Were you OFFICIALLY ARRESTED? Then nothing HAPPENED!".

    I am saying the reason I am no longer an AUSA was because when we were asked to look into political corruption? We were steered away from looking into Rs (note ONE R we were going to look at was actually convicted of long term corruption 10 years later) and towards Ds. And we refused to be partisan. I cant go any deeper because of an NDA.

    I am saying that the police doing what they do? Is the result of Republicans who WORSHIP uniforms and those who wear them. Who think that "Lawful Order" means any word said in uniform (here is a clue, not even close). It is a result of a USSC who ruled that the police do not have to protect or serve but are immune from lawsuits under "guise of authority".

    Defund is a bad phrase. The solution is this. And I have said this for DECADES. Maybe they need to flip the % of time in the classroom and the % of time running laps and the "courses". There needs to be a literal DAY of them in a room, well lit and spend 8 hours hearing on a loop "YOU are not the ABSOLUTE BOSS out there. YOU are not a special person, who if disrespected verbally can "punish that person". YOU work for the GOVERNMENT. Not the UNION. Not YOUR BROTHERS. The LAW is the LAW. Not your WORDS.". And they sure as shit dont need tanks and armored personnel carriers. They dont need military surplus. If they have that money in that budget? They have too much BLOODY MONEY. And if an officer can, 8 years in (the county I grew up in, safe and pretty calm in general) the officer who is single can afford a 4 bed 3 bath home and a corvette? May be overpaying SUBURBAN cops.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
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  19. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Depends where man. I saw those types DRUMMED OUT fast in my area. I had a great conviction record. Why? I did not let questionable cases go to jury. Luckily I was a top of the class and as my first supervisor said "A silver tongued pretty boy con man on the side of the light". One colleague even compared me to to Kevin Lomax (Reeves, Devil's Advocate). I could, and still can, play the HELL out of a jury. But I had ETHICS. I would NOT withhold evidence. I liked my win loss. But I measured that by what went to jury. If we charged the wrong person? Not a loss. Justice to say "Your Honor. We got the wrong person. The state withdraws charges, requesting "without prejudice" in the case that they are still somehow connected. Proven well at a later date.". Please dont lump us good ones in with the "I convicted everyone I ever charged. Any later reversals are bad rulings! I was right!".
     
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  20. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    I would like to believe you are the norm and not the exception.
     
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