How can you be conservative and pro incest?

Hello

I never understand it. I mean definition of conservatism is precisely promotion and preservation of traditional values and society. However, incest go against the two: it's against traditional values coming from book religion and also against traditional society as it can make family tree complicated.

I find that there is here an ideological inconsistency. Are these people in fact right-wing progressives who ignore their true self? Or are they just opportunistics, conservative only on paper or when it suits their objective interests?

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of labels, or quantifying myself. I am what I am, reguardless of where that puts me on other peoples charts.
For me, it's a compromise. My moral compass leads me left of center, but I'm financially conservative, and the wallet usually wins.
I identified as a Dem, until my late twenties, but as I get older, I find myself leaning more to the right.
I'm not a fan of either extreme, and prefer moderate or middle of the road.

 

For most people it's a kink and the thought of acting on it IRL is repulsive within their own family. But fun to watch others.

 

"You seem to be painting Conservatives in a black or white manner."

I'm not. I just use defintion and basic logic. Their rhetoric is either inconsistent or hypocritical.

"There is a wide spectrum of belief among Conservatives and it can range from Center to Right."

I agree, I’m just pointing out a problem of consistency with the very definition of what it means to be conservative.

Many conservatives believe at 100% in God or even in Trump those days haha, why they don't in there own supposed ideas?

"I am assuming when you refer to religion, you mean Christianity,"

I say every Book religion, i meen just that, islam and judaism also have prejudices against incest.

"but I don't think the Bible says anything against Incest"

Incest prohibition in western countries come from church and church take it from the Bible (even if some Old Testament passages are ambiguous).

"it can be defined as racist, sexist, xenophobic or any one of a variety of bigotry."

Most conservatives are all of that and you don't say them anything, double standards again, you see the straw in the eye of the neighbor and not the beam in yours, as they say in France.

 

Incest was not frowned upon in Biblical texts until the Mosaic preludes for general laws for justice and ethical living.

As far as Islam goes, they look to "Father Abraham" as being the basis of their beliefs, (via Ishmael, son of Hagar)
and Abraham married his half-sister, (same father, different mothers).

So they don't explicitly dis-allow incest in all forms either.

 

Totally agree with the second part. Some Americans considers Biden a leftist, in Canada or Europe opinions he defends are at best considered centrist. Political party system in America is really special. My question was directed not only at the American Conservatives, but more broadly at the global level.

In fact people like you are often called liberal in Europe as they are partisan of economic liberalism (and as such globaly conservatives on economic questions) but more progressive than true conservatives on social and societal questions.

You touch the core point in your second message i thing: what best characterizes the Conservatives and, more broadly, right wing's people, is their lack of empathy and solidarity, their individualism, they tend to think about themselves and their own interest only.

Dane211 I admit i don't know text that well, but that wouldn't be the first time of "do what i say, not what i do" in religious text, those people tend to be quite hypocritic. Still prohibition of incest come from the churches, not from nature. When people or animal have choice they don't discriminate kins in choice of a partner, many biological studies and historical records prove it.

 

Why would we care about people who hate us and openly say they want us gone? The right also tends to not need assistance from others or the government. Where as the left is reliant upon the right and working class to survive.

 

In my personal morale and ethical views, i consider it bad to lack empathy, but morale view are particular to civilization and at a lower level to person, as i often repeat to conservatives who refuse to admit their view aren't universal.

I care even for conservatives, even for far right people, even for fascists and all those people hate me, want me gone or dead.

"The right also tends to not need assistance from others or the government."

Lol... Those who are the most assisted, those who are the most helped by governments, those who make a living from the work of others, are the rich and they vote massively to the right. These people have reached their situation most often by inheritance and they live as shareholders, not by their work or their merit. They are the unproductive parasites who cost much to society and especially to the poor people who work to fatten them up.

It is easy to verify that tax giveaways to the richest and largest corporations, for example during Trump power, had cost and still cost far more each year than all the social benefits combined. Also, it was under right-wing governments that public debts exploded, starting with Reagan, see the stats. The facts are really different of what you believe.

 

I agree.
New Testament Jesus Christ called most of the religious leaders hypocrites.
Especially the Pharisees. They were the absolute manifestation of "Do what I say, not what I do".

They spouted the unlawfulness of incest, but yet practiced it themselves as well as adultery.


Sadducees (the other high ranking religious leaders), were what we call Agnostics today.
Jesus Christ did not have much to do with them as he considered them "spiritually dead" and
unwilling to take a stance as to whether accept him or his teachings.

They're beliefs were based on what was scientific facts, even though they didn't have many facts to go on.
They did not hold much against incest, but knew it could be bad if the inbreeding went through too many
direct generations.

The extreme anti-incest in today's Christianity is a result of the 16th century reform by the Puritans.
They expanded the teachings in the Bible to include their own interpretations in a black/white sense.

That mindset has carried onto today's Christian teachings.

(Note; the Puritans arose as a sect of the Anglican Church which they claimed was getting
too Roman Catholic like in it's beliefs, teachings, and hierarchy.)

 

Those same companies thrive under democrats too. Look at the current situation in the US. We have Fascism in that the left is using the biggest corporations in the world (big tech) to do their bidding, censor information and perpetuate propaganda. And they continue to give them federal protection on top of tax breaks. But not a peep from any democrats about that. Who was once the party of free speech. What we have in America is called corporatism and its a bi-partison affair.

 

I agree with your analysis, even if it's maybe a little too anglo saxon centered haha. Also XIXth century vague when church (with support of some physicians like in incest prohibition case) start also attacking masturbation and homosexuality which were before that quite largely tolerate or considered at least minor sins. American historian Thomas Laqueur works a lot on it.

Still there is part of the Bible that are against incest even if Adam and Eve must have commit incest in some way if you believe the story and also there is the case of Loth and daughters... Levirat is jewish tradition is also something that can be considered incest, even if jewish tradition proscribe incest. And there is the case you quote about muslim too yes.

We have recently proof that those kind of hypocrisy is still very true nowday with a few catholic priests and also a concillor of the very homophobic Hungary leader Orban were found leading gay orgy even if they preach against homosexuality every day when on pulpit.

deadrockstar69 That's true, because USA Democrats are not leftists, but centrists at best: many of them also serve those who have the money.

 

It's ALWAYS been about the money.

Doesn't matter which party is in charge.
The extreme wealthy include both Democrats and Republicans.
That's why you only hear complaints about "tax breaks for the rich" coming from the party who is NOT in charge.

Other party gets in, former party screams the same rhetoric.

One thought to add,
No-one ever worked for a poor person.

But the rich have taken it too far.

Corporate greed is, and will be, the basis of the downfall of this country.

 

I mean most republicains and democrats share economic liberalism as an ideology at least (except the most leftist wing of those last: the Squad, Sanders, maybe Warren on some points and people who follow them). Still it was republicans who give the most, no doubt why they are support by some of the most wealthy families in America. Explosion of public debt during Reagan mandate for example prove it.

Think that make me laugh also is that right wing people often have as campaign argument reduction of public debt and spending but they give so much tax break that debt explode when they are in power: less income + expenses that are largely incompressible = more debt.

"Corporate greed is, and will be, the basis of the downfall of this country."

You're so true about this and not only for America unfortunatly.

 

They could tax the rich all you want and it still wouldn't make a dent in our deficit. The largest tax income is the middle class by far just in sheer numbers. But you almost NEVER hear them willing to give us a break. The rich will never pay their "fair share" because they don't work for money. They don't pay income taxes. They know how to make money work for them. The tax code is so complicated I doubt anybody in Washington even understands it. The rich will always figure out a way to avoid taxes and that's why they're rich.

 

Exactly

 

"The rich will always figure out a way to avoid taxes and that's why they're rich."

In this case, democracy is just an empty word.

"Conservative are not 100% religious. There are many atheists that are Conservatives. This belief is propaganda being fed to people from the Left."

Another time, that's a statistical question, on the average there is a lot more chance to be religious when conservative than when liberal and liberal also tend to have a less strict interpretation of the scriptures.

"The Church does encourage the prohibition of Incest, but just because the Church supports that view it doesn't mean that it is written any where in The Bible. The Christian Church does a lot of things that isn't in The Bible."

I agree on the point that church often forbid things with no Bible basis. There are still passages in the Bible that proscribe incest, or at least have been interpreted in this sense. And that's on a religious basis that incest was proscribe in many countries.

"The belief that Conservatives are Racist, Sexist and all the other things is again propaganda from the Left"

One only has to listen to what the Conservatives are saying to see that what I am saying is objectively true. And it annoys me this tendency to invent a plot and a plethora of imaginary enemies that conservatives use whenever someone don’t think like they do. I am always flabbergasted by the Conservatives' lack of substantive arguments.