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God

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by Carol, Sep 12, 2021.

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  1. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    Rereading this, I think you have another misconception. I believe Satan is not trying to defeat God. Satan is trying to subvert Mankind. God gave Man free will, so Satan is taking advantage of this, by corrupting Man's Soul. Since Man has free will, God won't interfere.

    Also the Bible is a collection of stories, written and gathered for over a thousand years. Integrating the stories are going to be a momentous feat. Try gathering stories since the Dark Ages, and make it into a single book. I'll bet some of the stories won't make much sense when compared to other stories.
     
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  2. Ouchthathurt

    Ouchthathurt Account Deleted

    I believe either deuteronomy or numver was the first book written in ghat particular mythology, the older of the 2 being dated to roughly 4500 bce, if memory serves with genesis being documented to around 1500 bce. The earliest writings of the new testament date to around 100 ad and the comoleted ratified works 300 ad. So it was about 5000 years of copies of copies.
    Some of the text in the earlies books can be shown to be plagerisms of older canaanite and babyloniam texts with hints of...im drawing a blank on the name but, the religion that mentions annunaki.

    The history of it is fascinating and how the ideology changed based on the evolving socio- political landscape is really a history of the first civilized power structures recorded.
     
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  3. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    By what is in the Bible, Satan is trying to take over the throne in Heaven.
    He said, "I will" 5 times.
    "I will:
    -ascend into Heaven,
    -exalt my throne above the stars of God,
    -sit on the mount of the congregation,
    -ascend the heights of the clouds,
    (and the most boastful)
    -be like the Most High."

    I believe Satan is an evolutionist. He just thinks God has been around longer and if Satan has enough time
    he can be like God too.
     
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  4. Ouchthathurt

    Ouchthathurt Account Deleted

    Im not familiar with this, where does he say this exactly and in which versiom of the bible?
     
  5. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    Isaiah 14: 13-14

    KJV, NKJV, AS, NAS, ASV, ASB, ESV, NLT, NIV.
    Take your pick.
     
  6. Incs

    Incs Account Deleted

    I generally don't see the utility in trying to convince anybody of claims about the world in terms of hard logic. The reason is that uncertainty is so ingrained in our existence, it would be virtually impossible to ever apply the rules of logic in a meaningful way. For example, it sounds so easy to say that it only takes "proof of existence" of something for you to arrive at a hard conclusion. But what if you misjudged the quality of the evidence? Can you, a fallible being, ever arrive at 100% certainty? No, you can't. So are you an agnostic about everything forever?

    It is typically impossible to convince most people of existential claims even if you have mountains of evidence. No amount of the already staggering scientific data will ever convince climate skeptics of the impact of humans on our climate. Mountains of fossils won't change creationists' beliefs. No amount of recounts or forensic audit BS will ever convince Trump voters that he lost the election. That's sadly how many if not most people are wired. I don't like pussyfooting around the inconvicible when I make claims because that allows them to control the discussion with their lack of reason. If I turn out to be wrong, I proudly own it.

    I think agnosticism is usually a position of cowardice and laziness. It's the same when people say they are political "moderates". Because, you know, the correct answer is always in the middle! Noncommittal answers leave the unwarranted impression of discernment, as if the speaker had done their homework.

    I'm for a pragmatic use of language. When I say that there is no man riding on a flying sled pulled by reindeer, I deliberately signal that I'm not even open about discussing probabilities because it would be a waste of time and energy. That's exactly how I view discussions of the existence of God (big G, as in: we know what/whom we are talking about). I won't let the other side draw me into the irreducible uncertainty of reality to obtain an undeserved concession that I cannot possibly know anything with 100% certainty, just so that they can score a point with an argument from ignorance.
     
  7. Incs

    Incs Account Deleted

    To my knowledge all Abrahamic religions have the concept of a personified evil. The Christians have probably fleshed out the details more than the others.
     
  8. curiousFred

    curiousFred Trusted.Member

    Over millennia there have been numerous gods, at the time seen as all knowing, all seeing.
    There is no god, there is no devil, there is nothing but peoples need for someone they can blame for everything,
    that goes wrong in their lives. Also to frighten children into behaving themselves etc.
    The politicians want to own our bodies and the churches want to own our minds.
    The whole thing is just nonsense.
     
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  9. Djole

    Djole Trusted.Member


    I would say, 'uneasy fear', when God is concerned. "I don't know if there is a God, but what if there is and I didn't believe in him? Am to burn in Hell? I don't know?" I don't know somehow gives the appearance that you really care, but since you didn't know, it isn't your fault that you did something against the rules.

    That fear of going against the rules is what I believe is keeping the people entrenched in so many bad or unnecessary relationships. (Believing in god is a relationship, as well as marriage or belonging to a political party) The fear of ostracism is very strong, even if the group that you feel that you belong to 'isn't just right in the head', there is that fear.

    So out of fear, I feel, people are 'hedging' their chances....

    ----///---

    Now, I personally am of the notion that: if there is an omnipotent being, directing everything, well, 'It" will understand my petty, mistakes in life. "Out of Love" it will absolve me of all of my sins, just out of pure love, because, I cannot fathom an omniscient entity that has a sliver of hate in it! (Or jealousy, or wrath, or sloth, or it being even a smidge vain, let alone as vein as some religions present it to be. "Hail ME as the ONE AND ONLY...")
     
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  10. Djole

    Djole Trusted.Member

    I noticed that this point isn't that clear in what I wrote so far;

    We all have this life to live, we try as best as we can to make the most of it to our abilities. Then down the road comes this or that 'Prophet' preaching how we are supposed to live our lives as if he got the instructions from GOD himself.

    Well, I doubt that he did, talk to God. I doubt that 'His' is the only way, I doubt that there is just one way!

    If all roads led to Rome, I can imagine that at least more then a couple of them lead to Heaven.

    We have the freedom to chose our path; 'God' has given us that freedom, and with all of that power we have to take the responsibility that if our path leads us over a cliff, that it was of our own choosing.

    We should look deep into our own souls and chose our paths, and if we do fall of a cliff on that chosen path, at least it was of our own doing, not following some "Trump", "Pope", or "Messiah"!

    ----///----

    We live, we learn. We learn from each other and from the mistakes that humanity has made so far. But we learn from all of the advances that humanity has made also.

    We are all free. We should all be free to chose for ourselves, free from anyone's judgement, (even 'God's'), choosing to life a full and fruitful life as we see fit, making this life Heaven on Earth.

    It shouldn't matter to the Deity how we lived our lives but it matters to us! Living this life in fear, conformity, slavery to this or that master, I would say, is Hell on Earth!
     
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  11. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member


    Going to go with the Rabbis on this one that the Jewish at large DONT.

    And ANGELS are not allowed to question him.
     
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  12. Incs

    Incs Account Deleted

    Yeah, there are definitely differences in how different faiths represent theological concepts. It seems that the Jewish take a more abstract view of things overall. Evil doesn't quite have the strongly defined, at times almost physical representation that the "devil" has in Christianity. This also seems to be true of concepts like paradise, the afterlife, or the soul. I'm sure there are Jewish people here, too, who can hopefully enlighten us if necessary.
     
  13. MilaHot

    MilaHot Account Deleted

    If we were created perfect, as a Perfect Being can only create Perfection, that we wouldn't have sinned, we'd have been perfect.
     
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  14. curiousFred

    curiousFred Trusted.Member

    A bit of bullshit goes a long way.
     
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  15. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    Yes that is true. I need to rephrase what I said as what I stated was/is based on what 2 very close Jewish
    friends I have.
    They both say that there is an angel who does their best to corrupt men, the Death Angel.
    They stated HaSatan is considered the same.
    One said that HaSartan is considered a devil by Jews, an adversary, and the other one said it is a manifestation
    of men's ability to do wrong. The Devil is real but a metaphorical way. Which seems to be more of a Rabbi's perspective by
    what they said.

    But they both said the average Jew tends to believe what they think is true, not just what a Rabbi says.
    Similar to the Catholics in the U.S. (Cafeteria Catholics they are called, which most are, but they won't call themselves
    that).
     
  16. MilaHot

    MilaHot Account Deleted

    I liek the Cathare view of the world: There was a 'Good' God, who created the spiritual world, which is perfect, and a 'Bad' God, that created the material world, where there are sins, cruelties and all. So Earth would be the creation of the Devil, as its full of flaws, while Heaven, the world created by God, is perfect
     
  17. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    So the Hebrew word that translates down to (Closest translation) Adversary from Ancient Hebrew is actually more of a "person who questions God" than "the Enemy of God. Remember. The first 5 books go from Aramaic to ancient Hebrew to Modern Hebrew to Greek to Ancient Latin to Modern Latin to English between original text and the Bible at a Church.
     
  18. Dracoa

    Dracoa Trusted.Member

    If free will exists, then "God" can't be all knowing, otherwise what we will do is predetermined because "God" already knows what we will do, and knew it from Day 1, meaning that "God" created non-believers expressly to punish. I call that Evil.
     
  19. whitecoffee1

    whitecoffee1 Moderator Staff Member

    Everyone is a non-believer at the time they are born. No one is born with a belief in anything.
     
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  20. MilaHot

    MilaHot Account Deleted

    Indeed. And children who die at birth are not baptized, so they 'go in Hell'. And people that were there before Jesus, who had no chance of knowing him, are doomed to Hell because they were born 'too early'. Its not really a fair and good God that does that, right?
     
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