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Do you believe in climate change?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by Hatham, Jan 12, 2020.

  1. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    The only climate models that even came close to be predictive was one used the the U.N. and was totally rejected by the Climate Activists, because it didn't say what the activists wanted it to say. It doesn't matter how many people say that a climate model is scientifically true, if the prediction doesn't match reality.
     
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  2. Daddy's Home

    Daddy's Home Trusted.Member

    Ummm...what? How in the heck did you come to that conclusion? The impacts are all around us!

    Are you living 30-100 years in the future?

    Let's see what NOAA has to say (https://www.noaa.gov/education/resource-collections/climate/climate-change-impacts)

    I tried posting the pdf, but it is too large of a file...so here are some excerpts from it:

    Though we often think about human-induced climate change as something that will happen in the future, it is an ongoing process.

    Ecosystems and communities in the United States and around the world are being impacted today.

    Global temperatures rose about 1.98°F (1.1°C) from 1901 to 2020, but climate change refers to more than an increase in temperature. It also includes sea level rise, changes in weather patterns like drought and flooding, and much more. Things that we depend upon and value — water, energy, transportation, wildlife, agriculture, ecosystems, and human health — are experiencing the effects of a changing climate.

    A complex issue
    The impacts of climate change on different sectors of society are interrelated. Drought can harm food production and human health. Flooding can lead to disease spread and damages to ecosystems and infrastructure.

    Human health issues can increase mortality, impact food availability, and limit worker productivity. Climate change impacts are seen throughout every aspect of the world we live in. However, climate change impacts are uneven across the country and the world — even within a single community, climate change impacts can differ between neighborhoods or individuals. Long-standing socioeconomic inequities can make underserved groups, who often have the highest exposure to hazards and the fewest resources to respond, more vulnerable.

    The projections of a climate change-impacted future are not inevitable. Many of the problems and solutions are known to us now, and ongoing research continues to provide new ones. Experts believe there is still time to avoid the most negative of outcomes by limiting warming and reducing emissions to zero as quickly as possible. Reducing our emissions of greenhouse gases will require investment in new technology and infrastructure, which will spur job growth.

    Additionally, lowering emissions will lessen harmful impacts to human health, saving countless lives and billions of dollars in health-related expenses.

    Our changing climate
    We see climate change affecting our planet from pole to pole. NOAA monitors global climate data and here are some of the changes NOAA has recorded.

    You can explore more at the Global Climate Dashboard.

    Global temperatures rose about 1.8°F (1°C) from 1901 to 2020.

    Sea level rise has accelerated from 1.7 mm/year throughout most of the twentieth century to 3.2 mm/year since 1993.

    Glaciers are shrinking: average thickness of 30 well-studied glaciers has decreased more than 60 feet since 1980.

    The area covered by sea ice in the Arctic at the end of summer has shrunk by about 40% since 1979.

    The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has risen by 25% since 1958, and by about 40% since the Industrial Revolution.
    Snow is melting earlier compared to long-term averages.

    Water
    Changes to water resources can have a big impact on our world and our lives.

    Flooding is an increasing issue as our climate is changing. Compared to the beginning of the 20th century, there are both stronger and more frequent abnormally heavy precipitation events across most of the United States.

    Conversely, drought is also becoming more common, particularly in the Western United States. Humans are using more water, especially for agriculture. Much like we sweat more when it is hot out, higher air temperatures cause plants to lose, or transpire, more water, meaning farmers must give them more water. Both highlight the need for more water in places where supplies are dwindling.
    Snowpack is an important source of freshwater for many people. As the snow melts, freshwater becomes available for use, especially in regions like the Western United States where there is not much precipitation in warmer months. But as temperatures warm, there is less snow overall and snow begins to melt earlier in the year, meaning snowpack may not be a reliable source of water for the entire warm and dry seasons.

    Human health
    Climate change is already impacting human health. Changes in weather and climate patterns can put lives at risk. Heat is one of the most deadly weather phenomena. As ocean temperatures rise, hurricanes are getting stronger and wetter, which can cause direct and indirect deaths. Dry conditions lead to more wildfires, which bring many health risks. Higher incidences of flooding can lead to the spread of waterborne diseases, injuries, and chemical hazards. As geographic ranges of mosquitoes and ticks expand, they can carry diseases to new locations.

    The most vulnerable groups, including children, the elderly, people with preexisting health conditions, outdoor workers, people of color, and people with low income, are at an even higher risk because of the compounding factors from climate change. But public health groups can work with local communities to help people understand and build resilience to climate change health impacts.
     
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  3. Dannykinz

    Dannykinz Moderator Staff Member

    Yes I believe in climate change. My husband doesn’t though. It’s one of the few things we disagree on.

    I side with the Green Party. So I’m in the minority I suppose.
     
  4. Daddy's Home

    Daddy's Home Trusted.Member

    Hmmm... perhaps you should start looking at other sources for your info than OAN, Fox news, and Infowars.

    It is amazing how much you can learn about thing when not filtered through a lens of myopic hate and self-interest.

    The IPCC Climate Change 2022 Impacts Report: Why it matters

    https://www.ipcc.ch/report/sixth-assessment-report-working-group-ii/

    February 24, 2022 — This week some 270 top scientists from 67 countries, including two NOAA scientists, are completing the final details of a large-scale report: Climate Change 2022: Impacts, Adaptation & Vulnerability, the second part of the Sixth Assessment Report.

    The report will describe how climate change is already affecting the world’s human and natural systems.
     
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  5. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    Do you know what the normal average temperature of the Earth is suppose to be. Not what the current average temperature, but over prolonged periods of time, what the average optimal average temperature is suppose to be. Currently the Earth is still recovering from the mini ice age and is returning to the normal average temperature. We haven't reached it yet. The Climate Activist are taking data out of context, to come to an invalid conclusion.
     
  6. Daddy's Home

    Daddy's Home Trusted.Member

    We are recovering from a mini ice age. With all of the evidence that aligns with the current models, which, in fact, the vast majority of the worldwide scientific community agree on, do you somehow come to the conclusions of: they are all wrong; they are all "Climate Activists", and; you think it is some sort of a liberal conspiracy?

    At some point I hope you finally start questioning the validity of your sources. It has got to be tiring to always be on the wrong side of the truth.

    Besides, we have cookies!
     
  7. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    What proof do you have that you are on the right side. The only thing you are going on is that somebody told you.
     
  8. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    Same can be said to you. Why do you think you are on the Right side? All scientists support the Dems, dont that show something?
     
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  9. Daddy's Home

    Daddy's Home Trusted.Member

    At least @Dane, with whom I typically disagree, actually takes the time go through the responses prior to responding. (Much respect to you @Dane, despite our differences of just about everything).

    You see, my dear friend, I actually presented considerable amounts of proof from actual experts along with the links to the sources...not some YouTube videos from some smooth-brained flat-earthers pushing poorly thought out videos spewing false propaganda that are easily proven wrong.

    I am not one to simply throw some random statistic or 'fact' out there without making sure it is accurate and well-researched by actual professionals who are subject matter experts.

    When others here make blatantly false statements that they try to pawn off as 'facts' I call them out and ask for their sources. It is a very rare occasion when they actually provide an actual source for their misinformation.

    I actually like it when I am proven wrong as it is an opportunity to learns something new.
     
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  10. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    The only fact that I mentioned was the mini ice age, which is also known as the little ice age, which took place from about 1300 AD to 1850AD where the average temperature of the Earth dropped about 2°F. Shortly after the 1850's, global temperatures started rising, returning to the temperature before 1300AD. Apart from that I asked if you knew what the average global temperature should be, not how much the temperature is rising. It's a fact that towards the end of the 1800's global temperatures was 2°F lower than it should have been. Here's something, in the last 20 years, the global average temperature has not risen. All the rise in temperature cited by the activists took place over 20 years ago. All their climate models said that the temperature should still be rising, but its not.
     
  11. Daddy's Home

    Daddy's Home Trusted.Member

    Quite the short-term memory. Was not just talking about that one.
    Plus, if you look back, I agreed that we are at the tail end of a mini ice age.
    It seems like you either don't read the responses or don't understand the responses.
     
  12. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    I was just reiterating the point that you never answered my question, do you know what the normal average temperature is suppose to be.
     
  13. Daddy's Home

    Daddy's Home Trusted.Member

    I do, actually. However, I don't think you understand the limitations of simply relying on just that number.

    Here is an article which should help you immensely...should you actually read it.

    https://www.space.com/17816-earth-temperature.html


    The average temperature on Earth lies somewhere around 57 degrees Fahrenheit (13.9 degrees Celsius). According to climate information from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), that was the 20th century average temperature, measured across land and ocean, night and day. However, the planet’s average temperature is rising. The 10 warmest years across the entirety of recorded human history have all occurred since 2005.

    Based on NOAA’s temperature data, 2020 was the second warmest year ever recorded, just behind 2016. In the 21st century, average yearly temperature on Earth has been more than 2 degrees F (more than 1 degree C) higher than recorded pre-industrial temperatures.
    Earth is the only planet we know of that can support life. The planet has two major advantages that keep it habitable: its distance from the sun, and its protective atmosphere.

    In addition, Earth's atmosphere plays a vital role in regulating the temperature. The atmosphere provides a blanket of gases that not only protects us from excessive heat and harmful radiation from the sun, but also traps heat rising from the Earth's interior. Over the past few hundred years, the planet’s atmosphere has been altered by human industrialization, changing the way it traps and releases heat.

    To estimate the global temperature, researchers measure air temperatures on land and at sea at thousands of observation stations around the world, day in and day out. Then, they add all those measurements up and divide the result by the number of observations taken — that gets them an average air temperature for the whole globe.

    At any given time on Earth, the temperatures at the hottest place and coldest place on the planet are probably almost 100 degrees F (55 degrees C) apart, according to NOAA(opens in new tab), so an average temperature for the whole planet doesn’t do much to tell you what the weather is like outside. After all, right now it’s night somewhere and daytime somewhere else, and while it’s winter in the Northern Hemisphere, it’s summer in the Southern Hemisphere (and vice versa). But averaging temperatures around the whole globe does tell us a lot about the energy that circulates around the planet over longer periods of time, and can help researchers understand trends in climate change.
    It’s difficult to get good temperature estimates around the whole planet. According to NASA Climate(opens in new tab), global temperature data comes from thousands of observation stations, but in some regions, such as unoccupied deserts and mountaintops, stations are more difficult to set up and maintain. Meanwhile, even researchers analyzing the same data can use different methods for calculating the global average — although all show an upward trend in average temperature over the past few decades.

    For example, NOAA reported in a press release(opens in new tab) that 2020 was the second-warmest year on record, in agreement with the United Kingdom Met Office, while measurements from NASA(opens in new tab) and the European Union’s Earth observation agency Copernicus ranked it as tied with 2016 for the top spot.
    Temperatures are less useful for climate researchers than temperature anomalies, so most temperature reports use temperature anomalies: the difference between current temperature and a historical average.
     
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  14. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

  15. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    That was the average temperature of the Earth in the 20th century. It is not the normal average temperature of the Earth, when conditions are the most optimal. You're saying that this was the average temperature while you were alive so that is the best of all possible temperatures throughout all of time. A possibility that the Climate Activist refuse to consider, is that the Earth is returning to the best of all possible temperatures.

    Back in the 70's, they said we have to fix the climate in the next 10 years. In the 90's they said we need to fix the climate in the next 10 years. Now they are saying we need to fix the climate in the next 10 years. The people are tired of Climate Activists crying wolf constantly. Most all people knows and acknowledge that the climate is changing. They understand that the climate is changing all of the time. Calling people that doesn't believe in the Doom and Gloom of the Climate Activist as Climate Change Deniers, is a lie that they spread to try and to discredit people that don't agree with them. Climate Change is not what those that disagree don't believe in. It's the Doom and Gloom that they don't believe in.
     
  16. Daddy's Home

    Daddy's Home Trusted.Member

    My Dear Sir,

    Please enlighten us all on what the optimal average temperature of the Earth is/should be, how it is defined, determined, and proven to be optimal for civilization.

    Although you are not required to do so here, failure to provide source references will, IMHO, completely annihilate your use of it as a point of support for your position.

    The Earth is incredibly massive (compared to we tiny humans, not in the sense of solar systems and galaxies) and complex.

    There is still a lot we don't know or understand about it. We still don't have an understanding of Dark Matter, or why shows like the Tele Tubbies ever made it in the air.

    However, we (most of us) can see the impacts of global warming, like massive storms and raging fires.

    We (most of us) can also look back to see evidence of temperature cycles through a variety of ways, all, or at least most of which, show the same consistent patterns.

    We (most of us) can see evidence of a rapid increase in global warming that coincides with the start of the industrial age.

    That an alarm was wrung back in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, even though their worst-case scenarios did not fully materialize, does not mean they were just plain wrong.

    The models continue to get better as more data is included and tested against historical data.

    Not sure if you fully understand compound growth and how it can come into play in global warming.

    As the components of the complex system that tend to dampen the perceived impact of global warming, think glaciers and ice caps, ocean currents, etc., get used up, the changes will become much more dramatic.

    Like Dark Matter, which is really more of a placeholder for something we don't fully understand, climate change is here and increasing.

    Just because you can't see Dark Matter, does not mean there is not something there.
     
  17. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    I don't have to know what the optimal temperature is. I just have to show that you don't know, which means that every prediction you believe in, everything you are doing and forcing other people to do, is based on a fallacy. You don't know, but you will make everyone else to obey.
     
  18. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

  19. Brutus58

    Brutus58 Trusted.Member

    Voice of reason.
     
  20. GrWalton

    GrWalton New Member

    I have been experiencing it first hand my entire life.