2nd Amendment

There are plenty of historic examples of what happens when regular, armed people stand up against a proficient army that has no ethical limits: they die. If it were possible to defend a country against foreign armies without having one yourself, why waste close to a trillion dollars per year on the military? Look at Poland in WW2. The armed insurrection in Warsaw was absolutely brutally crushed. It just takes a few lessons of that sort until nobody dares to rise up. The invader's secret police will do the rest and make anyone disappear who is only suspected of working against the government. Fear, not just for yourself but your family, will do the rest. Or do you actually believe that it's just a lack of AR-15s that prevent, say, North Koreans from toppling their dictator? Ridiculous.

After having spent significant time in many countries, I'm always surprised about the infantile macho gun culture in the USA and the obsession with the 2nd amendment. You don't see that anywhere else to that extent. American males seem to believe they are so much tougher than everyone else because they can so easily buy guns. Due to their lack of experience with other countries or cultures, they don't seem to realize that many countries still have conscription service. In my experience, men who have gone through actual military training, especially in countries where infantry cannot rely on a super-powerful air force bombing the crap out of the enemy before they waltz in, typically become much less interested in owning guns or obsessing about going to war.

Have you ever been in a battlefield exercise with heavy battle tanks aggressively maneuvering near you? They are huge, very fast, and surprisingly agile. They teach you in infantry school that the psychological effect of armored attacks is profound, and I can confirm that. Heck, these things are scary AF even if they are fighting on your side! It's just ludicrous to believe that some armchair soldiers with a light weapon will stand up against an enemy with such capabilities.

I've interacted with both professional and militia soldiers during exercises at almost any level, from grunt to division commanders. It's painfully obvious that militia officers as well as low-level soldiers, even if they are otherwise intelligent and successful as civilians, pretty universally just don't cut it because they lack sufficient training and experience. Even professional soldiers can be idiots, especially at lower ranks. But the good ones can be really, really good at their job. If I had to lead a unit into battle (and I have commanded small units) against a competent professional commander, I know I would lose. The 2nd amendment guys strike me as kids who've taken a few boxing classes and now believe they can get into the ring with a Mike Tyson in his prime. You'd be so beaten up, you have no idea.

What America really needs to stay free is not more guns but more civics lessons.

 

That sir, is a major truth. 100%

All the guns in the world is not going to keep us free.

The liberal and Democrats and their Socialism/Communism/Marxist ideologies and policy changes
are going to destroy our personal freedoms in short order.
Maybe civics lessons would wake the "woke" up to reality instead of their "woke-ness" about feelings and their
misinformed brains about history.

The Democrat Presidents in the more recent past have ALWAYS tried to decimate our military.

I have posted before, as said by my Colonel Ranked brother (USAF), "When under Clinton, if one of the
major military countries decided to attack us, we would probably been out armed and lost" (paraphrased)

He told me that in Clinton's 2nd term, more than 50% of our airpower was not 100% ready and about 25%
were grounded due to not having parts/equipment to repair them. Russia, it was discovered, had been able
to track ALL of our submarines because of people like Snowden.
All feared some other country would figure that out and attack.

Then under Obama, when Trump took office, first thing he heard was from Defense Secretary Jim Mattis
telling him was that we were very low on ammunition.

We were lucky Carter got in office when he did instead of someone like him today. The whole world knew he
was even more of a pansy than Obama.

So I again, will say there is 100% truth in that statement!

 

Is it possible that you have a rather warped perception of what Democrats, liberals, etc., really believe? Watching Fox News all day would certainly give you this idea. I have yet to meet one in my social circles that supports things like "defund the police", or "wokeness", or whatever other bogeyman right-wing propaganda networks scare you with all day long.

No, they just move the money into areas that are more important than blowing up mud huts on the other side of the planet.

Is it possible that the military is ever too large? How large does it need to be? Anytime I ask Republicans, they can't tell me.

And that would be who? Iceland? And I keep hearing that liberals are scared little pansies.

Come on, there is NO way in hell that any other country could successfully invade the US. They wouldn't even be able to set foot on the shore. If you believe the US military is underfunded or depleted, you haven't seen other countries.

If that were actually true, maybe the solution would be to note waste so much of it in unwinnable wars in places that are of no relevance?

 

Yeah, that's a real problem, not just for cops but also for the "good guys". During the Tucson shooting of congress woman Gabrielle Giffords there was reportedly a gun owner who tried to help. But when he arrived, there was already a fight over the gun, presumably after the shooter had been tackled. The "good guy" wasn't sure whom to shoot and had to stay away.

Another thing that many gun owners greatly underestimate is the enormous difference between training scenarios and reality. Shooting at a range, even if you have to move through rooms, is not the same as actually facing someone who shoots back real bullets. It is well-known that most bullets that even trained police officers fire in real situations at relatively close range miss their target. That's partly because these scenarios are often much more volatile than most training scenarios (for safety reasons). And then there is the adrenaline that makes even otherwise good shots much more inaccurate than they expect.

Though I'm not completely against gun ownership, I don't think the rather broad interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is in any way helpful. Most people really should not have guns. I've been safety monitor at a military shooting range during a militia exercise and just seeing the horrendous safety mistakes made by people (former soldiers, no less!) who don't train regularly has convinced me of that. Your typical weekend warrior just doesn't have the skills to operate under the pressure of real scenarios. They may still shoot alright at targets, but that's the easy part. Situational awareness, tactical experience, and calmness under fire require lots of training. And lets not even talk about the lunacy that such guys should go up against a much better equipped, professional army!

 

No, I was thinking of statistics that show that cops miss about 50-70% of the time depending on the department. We were also taught in the army that the miss rate under real combat conditions is considerably higher. A lot of soldiers seem to have problems pulling the trigger on another person for real. It requires fairly intense training with high realism to get most regular people to actually shoot and shoot well under combat situations. The most elite SEAL team units conduct a ridiculous number of fairly dangerous (and expensive!) live fire exercises. There is just no substitute for high performance. It was also my impression at shooting ranges that there is a significant difference between practicing with training ammo vs hot ammo. The less practice the shooters have had in a while, the more nervous they get the moment they have hot ammo. They make handling mistakes you wouldn't believe!

Seriously, I don't blame regular cops when seemingly missing a lot in real situations. Most of them don't have SEAL level training. It's much harder than people think. Lets cut them some slack for trying to keep us safe.

 

If the data base exists, it can be exploited.
I. Declaration of National Emergency.
II. Supreme Court decision to release it to national law enforcement/intelligence agencies.
III. Go ahead. I'll bet you could add to this list.

 

I couldn't shoot Brandon's head even from a few inches away, its too thin!

 

Yeah, But I bet his ego would be deflated

 

You said it "madman" a sane person wouldn't just open fire. Start in the inner cities because well just do it

 

Yes I do agree that we need more civic lessons, so younger generations know our government is supposed to work.

But you are also wrong on a lot of the points you made.

 

So under you're argument let's dissarm the old vets who make a few mistakes because the criminals with 0 training deserve to be missed? And then wait for the cops to come and draw the chalk lines? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

You cannot control an entire country and it's people with tanks, jets, battleships and drones or any of these things that you believe trumps citizen ownership of firearms.

A fighter jet, tank, drone, battleship or whatever cannot stand on street corners and enforce "no assembly" edicts. A fighter jet cannot kick down your door at 3AM and search your house for contraband.

None of these things can maintain the needed police state to completely subjugate and enslave the people of a nation. Those weapons are for decimating, flattening and glassing large areas and many people at once and fighting other state militaries. The government does not want to kill all of its people and blow up its own infrastructure. These things are the very things they need to be tyrannical assholes in the first place. If they decided to turn everything outside of Washington D.C. into glowing green glass they would be the absolute rulers of a big, worthless, radioactive pile of shit.

Police are needed to maintain a police state, boots on the ground. And no matter how many police you have on the ground they will always be vastly outnumbered by civilians which is why in a police state it is vital that your police have automatic weapons while the people have nothing but their limp dicks.

BUT when every random pedestrian could have a Glock in their waistband and every random homeowner an AR-15 all of that goes out the fucking window because now the police are out numbered and face the reality of bullets coming back at them.

If you want living examples of this look at every insurgency that the U.S. military has tried to destroy. They're all still kicking with nothing but AK-47's, pick up trucks and improvised explosives because these big scary military monsters you keep alluding to are all but fucking useless for dealing with them.

I'm sure I'll get banned for this post because that's what the left does. And you know who you are.