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What's the Deal With Climate Change

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by Neophyte, Apr 25, 2019.

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Which Climate Change Faction Do You Most Identify With

  1. Alarmist

    17.9%
  2. Advocate

    25.6%
  3. Undecided

    2.6%
  4. Skeptic

    35.9%
  5. Denier

    17.9%
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  1. SecretWishes

    SecretWishes Trusted.Member

    World no... humanity: always in danger (mostly from self...)
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  2. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    How much ice in the world.

    There are three major locations where there is ice in the world.

    The Arctic Ice Cap, approximately 12 million cubic kilometers.
    Greenland Glaciers, approximately 2.6 million cubic kilometers.
    The Antarctic Ice Cap, approximately 30 million cubic kilometers.
    All other glaciers, approximately 1.2 million cubic kilometers.

    Total volume of ice is 45.8 million cubic kilometers.

    Total surface area of all the worlds oceans is approximately 360 million square kilometers.

    Calculating the rise in sea level if all the ice melted.

    Floating ice will not affect sea level so Arctic Ice Cap is removed. Minus 12 million cubic kilometers.
    40% of Antarctic Ice Cap is removed. Minus 12 million cubic kilometers.

    Total non-floating land ice volume is approximately 21.8 million cubic kilometers.

    If all the ice melted instantly then the sea level would rise approximately 60 meters. But projecting the Climate Alarmist rate of heating of the Earth, the accumulated heat energy would take 5,000 years to melt the total volume of ice, for a project rise in sea level 1.2 meters per century.
     
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  3. PeterThePiper

    PeterThePiper Trusted.Member

    Interesting facts, and not something the media explain very well. Obviously Global warming is a serious issue, but one that we should be able to address, as fossil fuels are phased out, and things like electric cars become a normal event. Personally, for me my concerns are of the Global pollution, i.e plastics and destruction of the Rain Forests. The trouble is, like all these things, it is often the poorest in society that end end up paying for it, while our Global elite & World Leaders all carry on flying round the World in their private jets, and driving around in their entourage of gas guzzling cars. Until EVERYONE steps up to the plate, i fear little will get done.
    As someone posted on Social Media this morning, we see the young out protesting about Global Pollution & saving the planet, yet if they actually knew how much devastation is caused by Global Mining, to extract all of the metals & minerals required for their BILLIONS of mobile phones, i pads etc, it is staggering.
     
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  4. curiousFred

    curiousFred Trusted.Member

    So where is all the needed electricity for all types of vehicles coming from ?
     
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  5. PeterThePiper

    PeterThePiper Trusted.Member

    Obviously i can't speak for your country, but here in the UK, it is planned to have electric stations at every Motorway Service Station, and every petrol station, by the end of 2025. As for the generation of electricity, we have of course 2 Nuclear plants under construction. It is also envisaged that the vast majority of Public Power Outlets, will be supplied by solar energy. Long way to go though, but the sale of electric & Hybrid cars and vans has increased dramatically in the last 5 years, and many of our larger cities are converting Public Transport to more energy efficient alternatives.
     
  6. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Moderator Staff Member

    As long as electric cars are powered by fossil fuels they are neither "cleaner" nor more "energy efficient" than a conventional car. The pollution is just moved from the individual car to the power plant. Electric cars are built with more expensive materials to lower their weight, to compensate some for less efficient use of the fossil fuel.

    Each step between fuel and wheels creates a loss of power, mostly released as heat.

    Conventional Car
    Fuel > Engine > Transmission > Wheels

    Electric Car (powered by a steam driven generator)
    Fuel > Boiler > Steam > Turbine > Generator > Step-up Transformer > Long Distance Distribution Power Line > Step-down Transformer > Local Distribution Power Line > Step-down Transformer > House Wiring > Charger (Converts AC to DC) > Car Battery > Power Converter (Converts DC to AC) > Electric Drive Motor > Wheels
     
  7. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    A hybrid makes more sense than a pure electric. If you take my Ford Escape as a perfect candidate, it already has a turbocharger and auto shutoff/restart. So replace the floor pan with a lithium ion battery, add a KERS system to the turbo and brakes and a supplimental electric motor behind the flywheel. The gasoline engine only needs to run on demand, ie: if the battery needs charging or power demand exceeds electric HP available. You can plug it in at night to top it up.
    The technology to do this already exists. It would add maybe $15,000 to the price of a $30,000 car, but I would think you would get easily over 100 MPG and virtually no emissions.
    I'd buy one tomorrow.
     
  8. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    True, but if your hydro generation is by water powered turbines and/or solar or wind, it makes sense. I would even add nuclear to that but I'm sure a lot would disagree.
     
    Brutus58 likes this.
  9. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    Hydro, solar and wind has their own problems. Hydro requires large rivers that need to be dammed causing environmental impact and blocking fish. Wind takes large amounts of land that needs to be cleared of all animals and has a high maintenance cost. A steady source of wind is needed and the wind turbines has a nasty habit of kill eagles, hawks and owls some that are on the endangered list. Solar requires less land than wind but a lot more land than fossil fuel plants, they only generate power during daylight hours and need fossil fuel backup plants during hours of darkness, since fossil fuel plants can't be started instantly they need to be running 24 hours a day, so they can't be shut off. Also solar panels require heavy metals for their construction, so the uses of them will start heavy metal poisoning of the environment.
     
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  10. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Don't you just love people who think they have an answer for everything?

    Hydroelectric power can be utilized anywhere you have a head of water. You can take a flood control dam and put a turbine beside it with no additional impact on anything. We're doing it all over the place up here. It doesn't matter how small they are, just tie them all into the grid. You don't even need a dam, all you need is a lake that's higher than the next one. A small diversion tunnel with a turbine, and free power.
    Wind turbines are erratic but there are other ways to store power. Hydrogen comes to mind (and it can be transported). There is a loss during conversion but we're getting better at it, it's already viable. There's nothing wrong with solar farms if you have adequate hours of sunlight, and they don't all require solar panels. There is a big one in Spain that uses mirrors to superheat and store steam, it's supposed to be like 300MW when its all complete. Wouldn't work up here though, not enough sunlight to justify it.
    There's a tidal bore generator in experimental form operating in the Bay of Fundy that looks promising.
    All it takes is people to start thinking outside the box, instead of immediately spouting about why it won't work. What needs to change is to get people to start thinking beyond the next quarterly report on their stocks and look ahead for a change.
    Maybe we have a chance, the Donald Trumps of this world won't live for much longer. Hopefully the next wave of power brokers will have a more enlightened presience.
     
  11. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    I just pointed out the problems with hydro, wind and solar. I gave no answers, you just made that up on your own. trying to put words in my mouth that I never said. I've heard of a solar mirror generator in France and they fry as many birds as do the wind turbines shred. Every method of green energy has its problems which their proponents refuse to acknowledge that they exists. Its people like Trudeau that is actually destroying the world, but you won't believe that either.
     
    Insp Gadget likes this.
  12. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Who said I was talking about you?

    But you're right. You gave no answers.
     
  13. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Maybe.

    Or maybe what you are really afraid of is that people like Trudeau are destroying your world, in an attempt to save a world for my daughter to live in.

    And yes, I'm voting for him again.

    :):)
     
  14. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Moderator Staff Member

    And no, I'm not voting for him.
     
  15. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    lol

    I'm not voting for Elizabeth Warren, so you're safe.

    :p
     
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  16. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Moderator Staff Member

    Neither am I
     
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  17. Brutus58

    Brutus58 Trusted.Member

    The other problem that is not addressed is the fact that "electric" vehicles don't work well in hostile environments. Forget Alaska in the winter. It's about 24/7 of darkness in the winter. Solar will not work. I don't know how they would work in the cold anyway. The same is true for those states with cold winters. New York State being one of them. I think the same goes for Canada. BTY, who cleans the snow, ice, dirt and other crap off the solar panels. Also there are states that endure extreme heat during the summer months. Those batteries will only function within an optimal temperature range. I live near Niagara Falls (30-45 minute drive). There is a HUGE hydroelectric plant. It was built purely to power New York City on the other side of the state (7-8 hour drive via thruway). Actually 90% of the power goes there. The other 10% is earmarked for industry in and around Buffalo, NY. All residential houses and small businesses get their electricity from a COAL fired plant that is about an hour from Buffalo. The plant is on the shore of Lake Erie and the coal come in via freighter. There has been 4 windmills placed just off shore by Buffalo. They are constantly being patrolled by the US Coast Guard. They are to keep the curious and terrorists away. How much fuel is burned doing circles around the group is unknown. How much power they generate and where it goes is unknown.

    To have an "zero" emissions electric car in buffalo means you are just burning more coal to meet the demand on the electric grid to "charge or top up" electric vehicles. Whether they are hybrids or pure electric. That doesn't even take into consideration the amount of fuel burned by the freighters or patrol boats (and the pollution they create).

    Yes, the world has been in a "state" of global warming since the end of the Ice Age. Since platetectonics (sp) has a lot to do with ocean currents and volcanic activity that influences global warming, just how can we (humans) stop that? The world was a much warmer and tropical place when the dinosaurs existed. Then an event happened and the world cooled down (Ice Age). The dinosaurs died out. That allowed mammals to flourish (evolution anybody?). The Ice Age ended and the planet started to warm up again. Who's fault was that. Could it be that this "crisis" is the worlds way of returning to the way it was before the Ice Age? Any ideas or thoughts everybody?
     
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  18. Dracoa

    Dracoa Trusted.Member

    It's funny. The Climate Activists who are protesting currently, are littering, like in DC where they are throwing trash (confetti) while a guy "twerks".

    On the other side of the coin you have a Trump supporter who has organized clean ups, first in Baltimore, more recently in Los Angeles where they cleaned up 50 tons of garbage.

    So the "pro-environment" Left litters while the "bad Orange Man" supporters clean up messes.

    EDIT: Forgot about the literal dumpster fire in DC that the protestors set.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
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  19. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    A lot of what Brutus said is very valid (especially the cold temperatures). However, consider that the Hydro plant on the Canadian side of the Falls is twice the size of the US one, Ontario now has zero - yes, zero - coal fired plants (we closed them all) and we have a surpluss of generating power. Why not put it to good use?
    It can be done, but it won't be as long as people vote for the Trumps of the world. Some things are more important than corporate profits.
     
  20. Insp Gadget

    Insp Gadget Trusted.Member

    That is a clever way of putting it, I like it. [​IMG]
     
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