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Embargoes

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by buffyfan, Sep 2, 2017.

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  1. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Let me pose this. Trump was talking about re-embargoing Cuba. Because they dont have Democracy right? Well. Why are we doing business with China? And Saudi Arabia? Vietnam? They dont either. I actually had a student pose that one the other day and I could not rightly give a great reason. Well SA is totally "oil".
     
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  2. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Since when did democracy matter to the USA?

    Cuba gave America a bloody nose at the Bay of Pigs fiasco and America has been pissed in its usual childish fashion ever since, thats why the embargo.
     
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  3. Insp Gadget

    Insp Gadget Trusted.Member

    Permission to speak openly ?

    Thank you - and the reason I ask is that the concept of free speech doesn't seem to matter to the USA either.

    So here we go again - yet another phony USA 'agreement' that's not worth the paper it is printed on. Of course they will continue to bully Cuba - it's what cowards do.

    And of course they will renege on the Iran agreement as well, and NAFTA, and on and on. Hell, one of their official buffoons wanted to place sanctions on Canada for not joining them in bombing Syria. Then go ahead bully, sanction us if it makes you feel powerful.

    Sanctions are the tools of a coward - North Korea makes them look foolish, so they starve the Korean people. And how about Russia ? More and more economic attacks on the Russian people through sanctions - and then the USA begs Russia for rides to the International Space Station on a Russian rocket. What a classless act they are.

    So I think that the question is no longer with whom the USA should do business - the question is which reputable Country would want to do business with as untrustworthy and unreliable a dealer as is the USA ?
     
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  4. Mek

    Mek Trusted.Member

    It is a curious thing, what is right and wrong. We talk about it a lot in regard to incest, but it is the same question for everything in life. Who are we to decide what is right and wrong? It occurs to me that every nation, every society, every community, has different notions of what should and should not be. Whether based upon religion, on laws and policies or on some other means, if one person believes something different to you, then they will most likely consider you to be the one in the wrong. When it comes to groups on a national scale, then such habits become exaggerated to much larger scales. Nations throughout history have considered it their duty to impose their own beliefs upon those who believe something different... they called such people pagans, barbarians, heathens, heretics, infidels... the list goes on.

    Every empire in history, from the Greeks and Egyptians, the Romans and the Ottomans, have all subjugated others or killed them for resisting. Even the British, who's Empire stretched the four corners of the globe, believed that they could convince everyone to believe just as they did. The USA is really no different. They may not desire the use of physical force except as a last resort, but they have long held the belief that the rest of the world should think the same way they do.

    As for sanctions, they began back in the early days of trade, when nations would blockade each other's ports with ships to cut off their supply lines. In the modern age this became impossible, so different types of sanctions began to be imposed. The most notable of these were the sanctions imposed by the treaty of Versailles upon Germany, among others. History tells that it was these sanctions that formed the foundation of the Nazi party's policies in the early 1930's, and led to the rise of Adolf Hitler. When Hitler's intentions became clear, all that the allied powers did was impose more and more sanctions.

    Really, what the US is trying to do by sanctioning Russia, Cuba, North Korea... it is no different. Sanctions are merely intended as a delaying tactic, but it all eventuality, it just makes the subjects of such sanctions angrier, more desperate, and ultimately more dangerous.

    Eventually, it reaches a point where war becomes inevitable.
     
  5. Insp Gadget

    Insp Gadget Trusted.Member

    The latest USA trade sanction against Canada came recently, in the form of a 220% tariff on commercial airliners manufactured by Bombardier.

    [​IMG]


    Apparently they claim that Bombardier must be receiving government subsidies - because how else could a country like Canada produce a better product for a lower price ? :D

    Their hypocrisy is astounding - the US government has had to bail out their automakers, and even their own banks ! Boeing's 'Dreamliner' is no match for the Airbus either - so why don't they just learn how to build better airplanes ?

    Prime Minister Trudeau calls their action 'absurd' (we are so polite :)) and Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland said in a statement issued Tuesday night, that the US sanction is clearly aimed at eliminating Bombardier aircraft from their market.

    As a result, Canada will be re-thinking its planned purchase of Boeing F-18 jets, following our decision to pass on Lockheed's flawed F-35.

    And when we come to our senses, we will realize that for commercial and military purposes in a northern nation, Canada would do well to consider doing business with a reliable country's aircraft manufacturers, like Russia's Antonov.
     
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  6. Antares

    Antares The Famous LTD Doggie

    I won't get into this whole argument cause I don't know enough to speak intelligently. But I can say this about what is posted above.

    Remember that I pilot a 'heavy' and I can tell you honestly that from what I have seen, read and know about the Airbus; it is a maintenance disaster. There is always something wrong with it. Each one spends hundreds of hours in maintenance far more than any Boeing.

    As for Russian planes they can't pass air worthyness standards in most of the western world. You will note that other nations don't buy them.
     
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  7. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    I think what Gadget is saying is that we (Canada) should be dealing with a reliable "trading partner", not the reliablity of the aircraft as such. Personally I agree with him. It's about time we put "Canada First". If you don't like our terms, bugger off, we'll deal with somebody else.

    The USA has made it painfully obvious they cannot be trusted, time to deal with the Europeans.

    And for the record, the Antonov is not a Russian aircraft.
     
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  8. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Dassault made an excellent pitch for their Rafale fighter (a lot of it is already made in Canada), it fits our requirements quite well, I don't see why we shouldn't deal with them. What the hell, we have a nice new free trade with the EU, lets use it.

    :)
     
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  9. Antares

    Antares The Famous LTD Doggie

    Antonov State Company, formerly the Antonov Aeronautical Scientific-Technical Complex, and earlier the Antonov Design Bureau, was a Soviet, and later a Ukrainian aircraft manufacturing and services company

    Antonv is a State Company formerly the Antonov Aeron Scientific Tech Complex and earlier the Antonv Design Bureau which was owned and run by the Soviet Union i.e its a Russian aircraft.
     
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  10. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    "Was" being the key word. Antonov is a Ukranian company.
     
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  11. Antares

    Antares The Famous LTD Doggie

    which is sadly being slowly taken over and run again by Russia. The main point is that the aircraft is not completely airworthy by western standards of safety.
     
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  12. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    It was airworthy enough when we leased it to fly our DART team to Afghanistan.

    :)
     
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  13. Antares

    Antares The Famous LTD Doggie

    That may be so but you were taking a chance Planes have lost their certificates for far less than the problem with the Antonov. The Swiss just pulled the certificate on an historic aircraft because of its wheel brakes which wasn't really a flight issue.
     
  14. Insp Gadget

    Insp Gadget Trusted.Member

    The USA is so envious of Russia, of course. Because Russia is solid.

    They enjoy great sports, science, music and the arts, and they are champions of women's rights. They placed the first satellite into orbit around the Earth, and they launched the first man into space, as well as the first woman.

    They have national pride, and they are proud of themselves for good reason.

    So of course the spiteful USA hates Russia, like they do any other nation who succeeds - it's their little man syndrome.
     
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  15. Antares

    Antares The Famous LTD Doggie

    I don't hate Russia. I just wouldn't want to be responsible for flying one of their aircraft. I think I have the credentials to speak on that subject.
     
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  16. Insp Gadget

    Insp Gadget Trusted.Member

    Yes of course you do Antares, and your knowledge is to be respected.

    But what this topic was about is the embargoes.

    One cannot become better by putting others down.

    I and my like used to admire your Country for good reason. And now we hope that your Country will offer us good reason to admire it once again.
     
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  17. Antares

    Antares The Famous LTD Doggie

    And when we come to our senses, we will realize that for commercial and military purposes in a northern nation, Canada would do well to consider doing business with a reliable country's aircraft manufacturers, like Russia's Antonov.


    This is the statement that did it Insp Gadget....so I stuck my two cents in on only that part of the chat.
     
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  18. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Yes, but you continue to read it wrong dear boy - he said "a reliable country's aircraft manufacturers", not "a country's reliable aircraft".

    It's not the airworthyness of the plane we question, it's the trustworthyness of the nation of its origin.

    And sad to say, but right now north of the border, the USA is about a two, and its heading for a zero very quickly.

    :(
     
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  19. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    The regular average list price of the Bombardier CS-100 is $80 million each. Bombardier sold several CS-100's to Delta Airlines for an average price of $20 million each. Boeing is saying that the $20 million price is only possible because Bombardier is receiving government subsidies to compensate for the loss of revenue in the planes sale. Bombardier is also trying to circumvent the sanctions to sell planes to Iran. And the government subsidies are believed to help in dealing with Iran to out bid Airbus, Bombardier's rival in the sale of the CS-100 to Iran.
     
  20. Insp Gadget

    Insp Gadget Trusted.Member

    Neophyte, I think that the concept of fair play has apparently escaped the so-called minds of Canada's so-called friend.

    Buddy, lets face the facts. The USA has the little man syndrome.

    As much as the fine country which calls itself the leader of the free world would promote itself as being such, the more they show themselves as being just hollywood phonies.

    Is it necessary to diminish other countries just to feel proud of yourselves ?
     
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