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Hate the USA? Then leave already!

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by Dane, Nov 1, 2018.

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  1. TriadSibling

    TriadSibling Bro/Sis Enthusiast

    This is why I think there needs to be some kind of oversight when it comes to the education system. The system has become one of the many gears in the propaganda machine.
     
    Brutus58 and Dane like this.
  2. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Here is an idea that will help that. And this is from a former DA. You have your rights. Period. Not "when he tells you it is time to have them". You are right. Dont reach for his gun. Asking for a warrant? Not resisting. DOES NOT MATTER ONE FUCKING BIT the cop decided it was not time yet. Asking what the charge is? Not resisting. Again. Not ONE FUCKING BIT of reality in court to "I DECIDED IT WAS NOT TIME TO TELL HIM! HIS RIGHTS ARE THERE WHEN I DECIDE IT IS TIME!". Seen a FUCK LOAD of cases get tossed because the cop decided he did not have to follow suspect rights because "I GAVE HIM ORDERS TO NOT QUESTION ME!".

    If and when that becomes the norm, rather than "OBEY NOW! File a complaint with the department at another time!"? The public will support the police. In general? The public knows police have a dangerous job. They just don't think that is a justification for the "MY WORDS ARE LEGAL ORDERS TO BE OBEYED WITHOUT QUESTION". You realize that, not "laws I dont like!" is the definition of a police state right? "Do what the people in a uniform order as soon as they order! If not? Whatever happens is your fault. All you had to do was obey their direct orders and their right to give you orders based on their uniform alone.".

    Now. To be clear. In a safety situation? Their orders are for a reason. Every word uttered by an officer for their entire shift is not, and should not be, legally binding to be obeyed. Only when there is a reason. Not just because he is "on duty" and "spoke words". Especially when their "order" is contrary to the actual law. Example. I saw, many times, NYPD cops order musicians off of subway platforms. The musicians, under NYC law, are allowed to be there. They even quote the law to the cops. The response from NYPD "I dont care! I gave you an ORDER to leave. My word is the law, not what is written in the law. I give orders and that is the only law that matters.". Then the department? They take the complaint and tear it up as soon as the person leaves. Because we let the police regulate themselves. We let their Co-workers decide what to do with complaints against their co-workers. That, taking it out of PDs , is like letting Teachers decide if the actions of other teachers were right or wrong.
     
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  3. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    So. First thing that needs to be taught at the HS level is the 4th Amendment. Protection from search and seizure is not "If and when they decide to present a warrant. Until then, pipe down and dont question them.". Now all the police have to do is present a warrant when they begin the search. Not "later when they decided to" (I have seen cases tossed because they cops said "I will show it when I choose to" and it turns out they did not want to WAIT for it and entered/searched before it was even signed).

    Also. There is nowhere in the 2nd that states "unless you have been the jail". And on the 2nd Amendment. Also. You can own as many as you want. And whichever one you want. Up to and including nukes. Now on a side note. it does not technically forbid registry. or STRICT liability for what is done with it. Example. You bought gun X, Y and Z. It was stolen and you did not report it because "none of their business". Or sold it or gave it to person B. Now person A is shot with it. I do not think that it is against the 2nd to say original owner is liable in the shooting as well, civilly.
     
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  4. Brutus58

    Brutus58 Trusted.Member

    And these VERY clueless millennials are the ones allowed to VOTE! And they are dumber than worm shit!!!!
     
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  5. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    The scariest part is that they are groomed to be Democrats!
     
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  6. amiraj

    amiraj Trusted.Member

    USA is not alone. India has the same story going on. Few celebrity sucks.
     
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  7. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted


    But like I said earlier "I'm not at all afraid of our police. I know if I need to fight them about something, I do it in the legal system, not in the street. "

    So I believe the best way ( not necessarily the most "I have my rights" way ) is to follow their orders and then fight them in the legal arena.
    There are many more places to file a complaint about how your civil rights were violated by the officer. The AG's office, the ACLU, the DA,
    any private attorney, etc.

    But to stand there and fight them is always a losing battle. As soon as you get physical with them, you've temporarily given them any and
    all the power they want. If you exercise your right to not answer any questions, they have the law on their side that allows them to detain you
    until it is discovered as whether you are a threat to society, yourself, or not.
     
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  8. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    What a wonderful society. It worked very well in Germany in the 1930's and 40's.

    I hope you enjoy your police state.
     
    TriadSibling likes this.
  9. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    I'm not saying you have to do everything they say whenever they say it, but they do represent the law.
    As for the Germany comparison, it's not!
    We don't have checkpoints at every corner with them asking to "See your papers".
    (Please don't goto the sobriety checkpoints some cities do on holiday eves- I and the majority of Americans
    have fought against them as a civil rights violation for years. They are almost never done anymore.)

    Again, Fight then in the legal arena, not on the street!!!

    Germany then and a lot of other countries even now suppress their citizens from filing suit.
    But we can! And we do! And we won't let it be any other way!
     
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  10. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    I think the German comparison is very valid.

    Being who you are, you may feel quite comfortable with this situation. After all, the police aren't likely to confront you (yet).

    If you were a 20 yr old black man in Baltimore you might feel quite differently.
     
  11. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    You seem to be saying exactly what he accuses you of saying. "Do whatever they order then. They are IN CHARGE. Do as you are told or else. Then LATER you can say you think they were wrong. BUT NOW. OBEY AND SHUT UP!". Or that is how it seems to come across. It really sounds like, and I will not assume that is what you mean, you are excusing the Officer behavior there because you can just "file a complaint later and fight it out in court". Therefore the officers can act as they choose to.

    There is one flaw people overlook. If you are arrested and then found to be not the person? You actually have to go through a legal process to have an ARREST expunged. It does not go away in the system when you dont go to trial. The only time it does is when the "arrest" is on BS charges like PD favorites of "Disturbing the Peace" or "resisting" when there was no reason to detain other than "resisting". DA usually tells the PD to delete the arrest from the system while the DA watches.

    The overall solution is this. PDs need to have oversight that is not "Law Enforcement" answerable or "elected official answerable". Someone who can look at the actions without the coloring of "well how will the effect the election" or "WE have a dangerous job". Another would be shift start to shift end body cams. And the video is held by NOT THE POLICE. A third party who do not answer to the police. And it is a firing offense to shut it off at any time. And to stop the "what about in the bathroom"? As a dude? Dont look at your dick when you piss and you are fine.
     
  12. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    I hear in Canada if you say something that offends someone, they will haul you off to jail. At least in the U.S. you can say things without the fear of going to prison.
     
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  13. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Not that I'm aware of. I've certainly offended my share of people and i'm still walking around.

    o_O
     
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  14. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    If I remember correctly, in Canada, there was a Christian Minister who was arrested and charged with hate speech because he spoke out from the pulpit on
    how homosexuality is a sin.
     
  15. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    I don't believe you should obey and shut up. I am saying that you should speak up against them if they are violating yours or someone else's civil rights, but
    DON'T PHYSICALLY FIGHT THEM! It's a guaranteed losing battle if you physically fight them.

    You know, when you cross the street, while in the crosswalk, you are completely in your rights in that the motorist has to yield to you, the pedestrian.
    But if you don't look both ways, you can still end up Dead Right, or Dead Wrong.
     
  16. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Good. So he should be.
     
  17. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    According to the "Canadian Human Rights Act" if you say something that someone finds offensive, they can go to the Diversity Officer and if they agree you will go to jail. They don't have to prove that what you say was offensive they just have to think so and you go to prison. Welcome to Canada, just say the words we tell you to say or we send you to prison, land of no free speech and no free thought.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_Canada
     
  18. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    That is bullshit.

    And could you stick to the topic, this thread is about the USA. What we do in Canada is not relevant.
     
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  19. Insp Gadget

    Insp Gadget Trusted.Member

    The whole concept of this is terribly racist - and it makes no sense to me.

    What group of people would any Country consider to be so heinous, that this group would need to have a reputable image for themselves enforced by law ?

     
  20. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Well, it might have helped the Jews in 1936 Germany.
     
    Insp Gadget likes this.
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